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Fear & Greed, Fear and Greed

Friday 22 June 2023

The Voice dominates the last session of parliament with Opposition Leader Peter Dutton calling on the government to cancel the referendum. 

Also today:

  • The local share market tumbles with tech stocks sold off.
  • BHP boss Mike Henry says the same job, same pay legislation will be a “productivity killer” which will cost BHP $1.5bn a year.
  • And Indonesia gives everyone a five day weekend in an effort to boost spending. 

Plus don’t miss the latest episode of How Do They Afford That?

This week it’s all about franking credits – what you need to know as an investor. Get the episode from APPLE, SPOTIFY, or anywhere you listen to podcasts.

Find out more: https://fearandgreed.com.au

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Michael Thompson: The Voice dominates the last session of Parliament with opposition

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Michael Thompson: leader Peter Dutton, calling on the government to cancel the

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Michael Thompson: referendum. The local share market tumbles with tech stocks sold

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Michael Thompson: off, and Indonesia gives everyone a five- day weekend in

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Michael Thompson: an effort to boost spending. It’s Friday the 23rd of

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Michael Thompson: June 2023, welcome to Fear and Greed, Australia’s most popular

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Michael Thompson: business podcast. I’m Michael Thompson, and good morning, Sean Aylmer.

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Sean Aylmer: Good morning, Michael.

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Michael Thompson: Sean, your interview today, a little bit different, we’re speaking

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Michael Thompson: with Justin Graham, who is the group CEO at M&C Saachi

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Michael Thompson: Australia and New Zealand, and also their global head of advertising.

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Sean Aylmer: Yes, all about brand and brands, now, he’s actually coming

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Sean Aylmer: to us from, Michael, where is it? It’s France, the

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Sean Aylmer: city of?

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Michael Thompson: I believe it’s Cannes.

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Sean Aylmer: Not Cannes?

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Michael Thompson: No, no. We’ve had an authoritative ruling on this.

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Sean Aylmer: Yes, we did. He’s over in Cannes at the moment,

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Sean Aylmer: and we have a great chat to him about brands

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Sean Aylmer: and what’s going on in the world of advertising.

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Michael Thompson: Yeah, it’s a really good one, it’s worth a listen

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Michael Thompson: a little bit later on. First though, the main story

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Michael Thompson: this morning, Sean, federal Parliament has adjourned for five and

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Michael Thompson: a half weeks, and the last sitting day before the

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Michael Thompson: midwinter break was a fairly robust day in Parliament, I

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Michael Thompson: suppose you’d describe it. The Voice referendum was the main

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Michael Thompson: topic of the day.

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Sean Aylmer: Yes. In fact, it’s the last time many of us

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Sean Aylmer: will hear from politicians for a while, so all sides

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Sean Aylmer: were anxious to finish the sitting period with a bit

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Sean Aylmer: of a bang. It was the Voice that got the

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Sean Aylmer: most attention, starting with opposition leader Peter Dutton, who suggested

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Sean Aylmer: to Prime Minister Anthony Albanese that he just drop the

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Sean Aylmer: referendum since in his view it will fail and there’s

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Sean Aylmer: no point going forward because it will just divide the

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Sean Aylmer: country. There were claims that Anthony Albanese is trying to

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Sean Aylmer: rewrite history with the Voice to Parliament, while other more

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Sean Aylmer: bizarre questions from the coalition, like whether the Voice will

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Sean Aylmer: have power to offer advice to the Reserve Bank on

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Sean Aylmer: interest rates.
For his part, the Prime Minister said the

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Sean Aylmer: Voice advisory body isn’t a third chamber of Parliament, it

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Sean Aylmer: won’t change how laws are made, he said it could

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Sean Aylmer: help save money because it will give indigenous Australians a

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Sean Aylmer: say in how money should be spent in relation to

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Sean Aylmer: Aboriginals. Away from the Voice, the opposition in the Senate

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Sean Aylmer: moved a motion to (inaudible) Finance Minister Katie Gallagher

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Sean Aylmer: over allegations she mislead Parliament about her knowledge of Brittany

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Sean Aylmer: Higgins’ rape allegations before she went public, that was back

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Sean Aylmer: in 2021.
The vote failed, but it has become a

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Sean Aylmer: political challenge for the government. And Anthony Albanese again attacked

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Sean Aylmer: the greens over its blocking of labor’s signature housing policy,

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Sean Aylmer: accusing the party of being driven by self- interest in

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Sean Aylmer: dealing with the government’s $ 10 billion Housing Australia Future Fund.

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Sean Aylmer: Therein lies the three big topics we’ve heard about over

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Sean Aylmer: the past couple of months, and we’ll continue to hear

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Sean Aylmer: about the Voice, the Brittany Higgins trial and who knew

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Sean Aylmer: what, and of course, the Housing Australia Future Fund.

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Michael Thompson: What a day in Parliament, and of course we had Federal

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Michael Thompson: Treasurer Jim Chalmers have a bit to say as well.

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Michael Thompson: He pointed out that a budget surplus for this financial

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Michael Thompson: year is about to be delivered. He also hinted that

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Michael Thompson: Philip Lowe will not be reappointed as governor of the

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Michael Thompson: Reserve Bank, saying the next leader needs to take the

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Michael Thompson: bank into the future.

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Sean Aylmer: Chalmers said that next month he’ll announce who will be

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Sean Aylmer: governor from September, when Lowe’s term expires. Lowe could still

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Sean Aylmer: be reappointed, but that now does seem unlikely. Deputy Governor

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Sean Aylmer: Michele Bullock is in the mix, as is head of

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Sean Aylmer: the Department of Finance, Jenny Wilkinson, who as a younger

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Sean Aylmer: economist actually worked at the Reserve Bank. Others in the

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Sean Aylmer: mix include Wilkinson’s husband, David Gruen. Now, he currently runs

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Sean Aylmer: the Bureau of Statistics… Imagine that conversation at home? Hey,

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Sean Aylmer: honey, I got a job. Really? I got a job

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Sean Aylmer: offer. What was it? You got it? Anyway.

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Michael Thompson: Very uncomfortable.

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Sean Aylmer: That will be David Gruen and Jenny Wilkinson, all due

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Sean Aylmer: respect, I hope the best person wins. Also, could be

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Sean Aylmer: former Governor Guy Debelle, he’ll be thrown in there, though

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Sean Aylmer: I think that’s probably unlikely. Former Treasury Secretary Martin Parkinson

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Sean Aylmer: is another person who has been mentioned in dispatchers. Anyway,

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Sean Aylmer: we’ll find that out next month.

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Michael Thompson: All right, Sean, how did local markets perform yesterday?

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Sean Aylmer: Well, not well, really. The S&P ASX 200 finished the day down 1. 6%,

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Sean Aylmer: it dropped at the opening and then kept going. By

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Sean Aylmer: the end of the day, about 85% of the top

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Sean Aylmer: 200 stocks were down. The tech companies led the market

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Sean Aylmer: lower, following a big selloff on Wall Street. In fact,

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Sean Aylmer: the Nasdaq, which of course has plenty of tech stocks

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Sean Aylmer: in it, it closed down 3. 6% yesterday morning, and

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Sean Aylmer: the local market followed suit, WiseTech Global and Zero both

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Sean Aylmer: finished more than 4% lower. The miners weren’t real good,

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Sean Aylmer: commodity prices is the problem there, BHP was off 2.5%. The real estate

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Sean Aylmer: and consumer discretionary stocks suffered from fees of higher interest

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Sean Aylmer: rates. Telcos fell, so did the banks, Commonwealth Bank, National

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Sean Aylmer: Australia Bank, Westpac, and ANZ were all off between one

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Sean Aylmer: and 1. 5%. In fact, of the top 30 stocks

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Sean Aylmer: only pallet maker Brambles finished higher on the day. And

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Sean Aylmer: Michael, I found a survey for you.

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Michael Thompson: Oh yeah, go on.

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Sean Aylmer: More than one in four Australian investors think bonds will

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Sean Aylmer: outperform equities this year-

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Michael Thompson: All right.

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Sean Aylmer: … but two thirds of them don’t really know how

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Sean Aylmer: they work.

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Michael Thompson: Hang on, why is this aimed at me, Sean?

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Sean Aylmer: Well, I just thought I’d let you know. So a

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Sean Aylmer: survey by Global Manager, the Texas investment managers of 8,

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Sean Aylmer: 550 investors from around the world, asked, what happens to

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Sean Aylmer: a bond portfolio when interest rates are rising? There are

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Sean Aylmer: a bunch of options, of the 400 Australian responses, 63. 5%

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Sean Aylmer: said they didn’t know.

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Michael Thompson: Oh, aren’t we an honest bunch?

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Sean Aylmer: Aren’t we an honest bunch? I’ve got to say the

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Sean Aylmer: rate of I don’t knows in Australia, that was the

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Sean Aylmer: highest of any country and about double the second- worst

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Sean Aylmer: nation, which was the Netherlands. But I thought of you

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Sean Aylmer: when I saw this survey, Michael.

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Michael Thompson: You know what this sounds like to me, Sean. It

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Michael Thompson: sounds like an opportunity, it sounds like an opportunity for

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Michael Thompson: Fear and Greed to help educate.

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Sean Aylmer: People on bonds?

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Michael Thompson: Yeah, absolutely. Though I think for the sake of accuracy,

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Michael Thompson: we’re probably best to leave the education to you and

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Michael Thompson: not to me. Otherwise, that lesson could be a little

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Michael Thompson: bit skinny on detail. International markets, what’s going on?

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Sean Aylmer: Well, US investors are taking some really big bets that

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Sean Aylmer: Wall Street will fall further in coming months. Total US

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Sean Aylmer: short interest, which is basically the amount that traders have

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Sean Aylmer: spent betting against US equities, exceeded 1 trillion US dollars

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Sean Aylmer: this month. That’s the highest since April last year. Basically,

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Sean Aylmer: it suggests that traders reckoned the S& P 500s 14% rallied

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Sean Aylmer: this year will run out of steam. Supporting that train

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Sean Aylmer: of thought somewhat, are comments by Federal Reserve Chair Jerome

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Sean Aylmer: Powell yesterday morning, he said interest rates will need to

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Sean Aylmer: move higher to reduce US growth and contain inflation. Of

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Sean Aylmer: course, last week the Fed paused in its rate hiking

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Sean Aylmer: cycle. Also, worth a mention this morning are cryptocurrencies, they’ve

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Sean Aylmer: had a really strong 48 hours or so. Bitcoin jumped

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Sean Aylmer: to above 30,000 US dollars a unit. Now, fund management

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Sean Aylmer: giant BlackRock said it intends to launch an exchange traded

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Sean Aylmer: Bitcoin fund, that bolstered confidence in the digital currency and

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Sean Aylmer: its value surged.

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Michael Thompson: Oh, there you go. All right, there is a fair

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Michael Thompson: bit going on, Sean, some cracking stories coming up. We’ll

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Michael Thompson: be back in a moment with the rest of the

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Michael Thompson: day’s business news.
Sean, former Prime Minister Scott Morrison, has

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Michael Thompson: revealed that his controversial move to hide the truth about

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Michael Thompson: the AUKUS deal and the axing of France’s $ 90 billion

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Michael Thompson: submarine contract from President Emmanuel Macron, was not about a

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Michael Thompson: lack of trust in the French leader, but actually in

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Michael Thompson: the US President Joe Biden.

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Sean Aylmer: Yes. So, the surprise revelation made in a soon to

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Sean Aylmer: be released book casts a new light on the events

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Sean Aylmer: surrounding the announcement of that AUKUS deal back in September

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Sean Aylmer: 2021, it was worth $368 billion. According to a report in the Financial Review,

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Sean Aylmer: Morrison’s maneuvers with Washington and London, which meant that he

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Sean Aylmer: only told Macron about the AUKUS deal hours before it

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Sean Aylmer: was announced, was all about him being worried that Biden

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Sean Aylmer: was not locked into the deal until the dotted line

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Sean Aylmer: was signed. Morrison’s fear was that if Macron had prematurely found out what

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Sean Aylmer: Australia was up to, the French leader could have persuaded

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Sean Aylmer: Biden to back away from the deal, leaving Canberra empty-

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Sean Aylmer: handed. Hence, Morrison says he decided not to tell Macron

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Sean Aylmer: until the last moment.

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Michael Thompson: Oh, scandalous, isn’t it?

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Sean Aylmer: Scandalous. This, yeah.

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Michael Thompson: Oh, I love that story. Who would’ve thought that… What

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Michael Thompson: are we now? 18 months on from when that deal

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Michael Thompson: fell apart, that we’re still finding out little bits of

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Michael Thompson: juicy detail?

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Sean Aylmer: Oh, interesting, interesting.

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Michael Thompson: Speaking of interesting, Sean, BHP boss, Mike Henry says the

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Michael Thompson: same job, same pay legislation will be a ” productivity killer,”

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Michael Thompson: which will cost BHP one and a half billion dollars a

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Michael Thompson: year and create an economic drag on the nation.

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Sean Aylmer: Yeah, Mr. Henry said Australia had to address labor productivity

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Sean Aylmer: and regulation if it had any hope of competing for

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Sean Aylmer: investment on the world stage, adding it would be crazy

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Sean Aylmer: to try and outdo jurisdictions like the US when it

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Sean Aylmer: comes to subsidies. He said Australia needs to be best

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Sean Aylmer: in class in terms of ease of doing business, but

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Sean Aylmer: the nation is actually going in the wrong direction at the

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Sean Aylmer: moment, and told the government to stop doing more harm.

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Sean Aylmer: Of course, he’s talking about the legislation, which was a

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Sean Aylmer: labor pre- election promise, it will force employers to pay

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Sean Aylmer: labor (inaudible) workers the same as other employees in

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Sean Aylmer: the same roles. The proposed legislation has angered employer groups,

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Sean Aylmer: there’s a big campaign running on TV at the moment

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Sean Aylmer: I’ve noticed, there’s plenty of debate around defining what same

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Sean Aylmer: job means. We’re going to hear plenty about this one, Michael.

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Michael Thompson: Sean, Ford is set to cut 400 jobs from its

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Michael Thompson: local workforce, mostly in product development and design. I’m actually

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Michael Thompson: a little bit surprised by this, I wasn’t aware that

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Michael Thompson: Ford still had such a large presence in Australia.

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Sean Aylmer: So the three big manufacturers, Holden, Ford, and Toyota don’t

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Sean Aylmer: build cars in Australia, they ended that in 2016/ 2017. Most

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Sean Aylmer: of the manufacturing now is about altering imported cars, but

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Sean Aylmer: the actual companies like Ford and that, they still have

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Sean Aylmer: plenty of people across sales, marketing, other roles… Ford has

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Sean Aylmer: about 1800 people in Australia, it’s going to reduce jobs,

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Sean Aylmer: or as it put it, ” a separation program,” there’s quite

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Sean Aylmer: a euphemism.

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Michael Thompson: Oh, that’s uncomfortable, isn’t it?

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Sean Aylmer: 400 people are going to lose their jobs, they’ve got about

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Sean Aylmer: 1800 people here. Now, a lot of those job losses

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Sean Aylmer: will be in Geelong. Overall, if you actually look at

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Sean Aylmer: the car market in Australia, so beyond manufacturing, sales, servicing,

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Sean Aylmer: and then all the flow on retailing and all that,

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Sean Aylmer: there’s actually quite a few jobs in that sector. In

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Sean Aylmer: fact, I think it’s about 65, 000 jobs when you really

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Sean Aylmer: go broadly, so it is still a big employer. And

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Sean Aylmer: just before we leave workplace relations, Michael, members of the CFMEU’s

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Sean Aylmer: Mining and Energy Division have voted overwhelmingly to split from

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Sean Aylmer: the controversial union.

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Michael Thompson: All right. Now, Sean, you can tell we’re clearly a

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Michael Thompson: couple of months away from you taking an overseas trip

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Michael Thompson: because here comes some more stories just sneaking into the

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Michael Thompson: show, about people traveling overseas and spending habits and whether

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Michael Thompson: they use cash or not, because that is exactly what

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Michael Thompson: this is, Australians still relying on cash when traveling overseas

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Michael Thompson: apparently, because they’re worried that cards won’t be accepted in

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Michael Thompson: many places.

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Sean Aylmer: A survey of more than 1800 Australians by currency exchange

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Sean Aylmer: company, Travelex, found 52% stocked up on cash before flying

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Sean Aylmer: abroad in preference to cards. The percentage was even higher

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Sean Aylmer: for the under 25 years age group, with 62% choosing

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Sean Aylmer: cash over cards, particularly those heading to destinations like Bali

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Sean Aylmer: and Thailand, according to a story in The Australian. Travelex

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Sean Aylmer: said payment methods in countries are often very domestic, for

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Sean Aylmer: example, in China, it’s hard sometimes to use MasterCard and

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Sean Aylmer: Visa because of the popularity of China UnionPay. The most in

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Sean Aylmer: demand currency for Australian travelers, Michael, continues to be? You

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Sean Aylmer: have to get this right, surely.

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Michael Thompson: I would assume it’s the US dollar.

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Sean Aylmer: Yes, followed by the Euro Indonesian rupiah, Japanese yen and

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Sean Aylmer: British pound, the US dollar isn’t only popular for travelers

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Sean Aylmer: heading to North America, but also places like Africa and

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Sean Aylmer: even Vietnam. And while exchange rates don’t quite dictate traveler’s

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Sean Aylmer: destinations, (inaudible) shows that about 33% of Australians using their

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Sean Aylmer: site are actively looking at places where the dollar goes

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Sean Aylmer: further. India, Argentina, Turkey, Japan, they’re all examples of that.

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Sean Aylmer: So there you go.

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Michael Thompson: I live in fear of you putting me on the

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Michael Thompson: spot like that, Sean, and especially since you spent the

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Michael Thompson: start of the show mocking my lack of knowledge about

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Michael Thompson: bonds, and now I’m worried that if I happen to

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Michael Thompson: slip up and go, oh, is it the euro? Or

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Michael Thompson: something like that, then I’ll never hear the end of it.

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Sean Aylmer: Michael, don’t be like that. I’ve got your back.

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Michael Thompson: Well, Sean, I will put you on the spot now

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Michael Thompson: because you had some homework overnight.

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Sean Aylmer: Oh, yeah, yeah.

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Michael Thompson: And I think to date, you have never actually done

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Michael Thompson: the homework that I have sent you, but I have,

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Michael Thompson: on good authority, that you have actually done this one.

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Michael Thompson: Because you weren’t sure yesterday whether the serviceability buffers that

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Michael Thompson: the banks use to judge whether a borrower can repay,

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Michael Thompson: whether they were strict rules or not, because obviously the

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Michael Thompson: Commonwealth Bank was changing it against the wishes of APRA.

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Sean Aylmer: Yeah, so the short answer is that the serviceability buffers

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Sean Aylmer: are guidelines provided by the bank regulator, APRA. They’re not

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Sean Aylmer: rules, but if you breach them, then APRA will be

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Sean Aylmer: watching very, very closely. Now, I got an email from

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Sean Aylmer: an old friend of mine yesterday, which actually prompted me

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Sean Aylmer: to do this homework. I’m going to call him Wato,

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Sean Aylmer: because his surname is Watson, so he was always known

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Sean Aylmer: as Wato. Now, we worked together at the Reserve Bank

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Sean Aylmer: many years ago, he’s been a mortgage broker now for

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Sean Aylmer: many years. A very good man, very friendly, very capable

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Sean Aylmer: mortgage broker. If you’re in the central coast of New South Wales,

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Sean Aylmer: look up Wato.
Anyway, he pointed out that Commonwealth Bank

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Sean Aylmer: isn’t necessarily leading the market in terms of reducing the

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Sean Aylmer: serviceability buffer. He said ANZ changed its rules a few

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Sean Aylmer: months ago… Now, it all depends on the specific loan

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Sean Aylmer: and the specific individuals, but ANZ changed some of its rules, Westpac’s

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Sean Aylmer: also changed some of its rules, now Commonwealth Bank has

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Sean Aylmer: as well. The National Australia Bank and Macquarie tend to

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Sean Aylmer: be more conservative, though he pointed out that often it

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Sean Aylmer: depends on the type of customer that the lender is trying

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Sean Aylmer: to acquire. So, thanks to Wato, I know more about

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Sean Aylmer: serviceability buffers and what the banks are doing than I

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Sean Aylmer: ever thought possible. Thank you very much.

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Michael Thompson: How about you giving Wato a big plug there as well?

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Sean Aylmer: Yeah, I did. I did.

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Michael Thompson: No, no, that’s good. And look, he’s in the running

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Michael Thompson: for the Most Enthusiastic Advocate, the MEA.

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Sean Aylmer: Well, he has been a listener for all three years

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Sean Aylmer: that we’ve been, the full three years that we’ve been

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Sean Aylmer: doing this, and every few months he gets in touch

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Sean Aylmer: and says, I like that story about… So in fact,

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Sean Aylmer: Wato, you are the MEA today, Most Enthusiastic Advocate. Thank

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Sean Aylmer: you very much.

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Michael Thompson: Oh wow, it’s decided. Okay.

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Sean Aylmer: It has been decided.

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Michael Thompson: Well, congratulations, Wato. International news time now, Sean. India is

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Michael Thompson: gaining plenty of friends as a place to invest with

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Michael Thompson: Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s current visit to the US about

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Michael Thompson: much more than just political relations.

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Sean Aylmer: It’s Modi’s first state visit to the US, and top

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Sean Aylmer: of the agenda is deepening of defense ties, partnerships and

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Sean Aylmer: technology, India’s role in the Indo- Pacific, et cetera, et

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Sean Aylmer: cetera. You can imagine. However, traditionally India has had strong

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Sean Aylmer: relations with Russia, and according to Reuters, is the world’s

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Sean Aylmer: largest buyer of Russian arms. But as India develops, Modi

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Sean Aylmer: has made a point of meeting with business leaders. Remember,

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Sean Aylmer: he did it here when he met with Andrew Forrest

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Sean Aylmer: and Gina Rinehart a few weeks ago. This trip, Tesla

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Sean Aylmer: boss, Elon Musk, will meet with Modi, and is likely

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Sean Aylmer: to announce the large investment in India. He’s also meeting

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Sean Aylmer: with General Electric, Bridgewater Associates, which is a huge fund

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Sean Aylmer: manager over there, expect announcements from those companies as well.

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Sean Aylmer: Modi’s likely to meet the CEOs of Apple, Google, and

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Sean Aylmer: Microsoft too, quite the trip.

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Michael Thompson: Yeah, sounds like it. And one last one, Sean, Indonesia’s

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Michael Thompson: president has found a novel way to get people spending

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Michael Thompson: more money, create a five- day weekend in a bid

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Michael Thompson: to boost travel and consumption.

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Sean Aylmer: Genius. Would you agree?

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Michael Thompson: Yeah, it’s easy. Why don’t we have a five- day

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Michael Thompson: weekend? We’ll just have a whole week off, God, we’ll

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Michael Thompson: spend some money.

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Sean Aylmer: President Joko Widodo declared June 28 and 30 as collective

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Sean Aylmer: leave days around the Eid al- Adha holiday on June 29, effectively

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Sean Aylmer: gives Indonesian’s a five- day break. The leave days apply

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Sean Aylmer: to all civil servants, companies usually follow suit by giving

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Sean Aylmer: their employees time off as well. According to Bloomberg, the

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Sean Aylmer: stock exchange will be shut on those days. Now, it’s

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Sean Aylmer: not the first time Widodo turned to uncommon tactics to

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Sean Aylmer: drive consumer spending in Indonesia, not long after the government

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Sean Aylmer: lifted all virus curbs, he ordered local authorities to approve

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Sean Aylmer: permits for concerts and sports events to get people going

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Sean Aylmer: out more. During the pandemic he urged Indonesians to shop

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Sean Aylmer: online. I just think it’s a great way to get

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Sean Aylmer: people to spend more money, give them holidays.

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Michael Thompson: It’s a little bit creative, and I don’t think too

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Michael Thompson: many people would be complaining.

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Sean Aylmer: No, I don’t think so.

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Michael Thompson: All right, up next is the Fear and Greed daily

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Michael Thompson: interview with Justin Graham, group CEO at M& C Saatchi,

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Michael Thompson: one of the big names in the advertising world.

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Sean Aylmer: Yeah, sure is. Talk about brands, what’s happening in the

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Sean Aylmer: advertising world at the moment, great chat.

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Michael Thompson: Yes, coming up next in the Fear and Greed playlist

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Michael Thompson: on your podcast platform or at fearandgreed. com. au. And

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Michael Thompson: also, quick little plug for our weekend edition, which comes

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Michael Thompson: out tomorrow as well, Sean. If you haven’t tuned into

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Michael Thompson: the weekend edition, make this weekend the first time you

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Michael Thompson: do it, because it is something a little bit different,

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Michael Thompson: isn’t it?

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Sean Aylmer: It is something a little bit different. We have a

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Sean Aylmer: competition, you and I, we get an adjudicator, our colleague

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Sean Aylmer: Adam Lang, to agree or disagree with one or other

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Sean Aylmer: of us, about the biggest story of the week, the

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Sean Aylmer: sleeper story of the week, the most remarkable story of

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Sean Aylmer: the week and our favorite story of the week, and basically just comes

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Sean Aylmer: down to a verbal fight between you and I.

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Michael Thompson: That’s right. And I don’t think I have won a

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Michael Thompson: week in months.

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Sean Aylmer: Oh, I don’t know about that, I think you have.

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Michael Thompson: No, but I’m the underdog and I’m going into this

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Michael Thompson: weekend as the underdog, and it’s the title that I

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Michael Thompson: like. So just let me have it, Sean.

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Sean Aylmer: Right.

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Michael Thompson: All right, thank you very much and I will see you

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Michael Thompson: there tomorrow.

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Sean Aylmer: See you, Michael.

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Michael Thompson: It’s Friday, the 23rd of June 2023, make sure you’re

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Michael Thompson: following the podcast. Join us online on LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, and

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Michael Thompson: Facebook. To stay up to date on all the business news with Alexa

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Michael Thompson: and your Amazon Echo Smart speaker, simply say, Alexa, play

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Michael Thompson: the Fear and Greed podcast. To catch the latest episode,

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Michael Thompson: you can get yours now at amazon. com. au. I’m

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Michael Thompson: Michael Thompson, and that was Fear and Greed. Have a

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Michael Thompson: great day.