Interview: An introduction to Chinese equities

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Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear & Greed Business Interview. I’m Sean Aylmer.

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Sean Aylmer: A slew of worrying economic data out of China has

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Sean Aylmer: hit global markets recently, equities, bonds, currencies in particular. I

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Sean Aylmer: wanted to get an insight today into investing in Chinese

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Sean Aylmer: equities, including companies we’re familiar with here in Australia. I

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Sean Aylmer: want to know what makes these companies interesting to investors

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Sean Aylmer: and also how they view the economic and geopolitical risk

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Sean Aylmer: when it comes to China. This information is general in

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Sean Aylmer: nature and you should seek professional advice before making any

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Sean Aylmer: investment decisions. Rob Talevski is the CEO of Webull Australia.

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Sean Aylmer: Rob, welcome to Fear & Greed.

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Rob Talevski: Thanks, Sean. Thanks for having me.

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Sean Aylmer: So Rob, just to make it clear here, we’re talking

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Sean Aylmer: about investing in Chinese equities, which is very different from

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Sean Aylmer: investing in BHP, which obviously its earnings rely a lot

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Sean Aylmer: on Chinese demand and things like that. Why as an

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Sean Aylmer: investor, should I take the risk of investing directly into

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Sean Aylmer: Chinese equities rather than relying on my BHPs of the world?

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Rob Talevski: It’s a good question. I mean, I think as retail

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Rob Talevski: clients or retail investors we’re often told to think invest

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Rob Talevski: locally, invest at home in the likes of BHP or maybe

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Rob Talevski: a bit further abroad to the US market. But I

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Rob Talevski: think if we look at the world that way, it’s

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Rob Talevski: a pretty narrow world to invest in and China is

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Rob Talevski: the second- largest economy in the world. So I think

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Rob Talevski: it’d be remiss of us not to see that there

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Rob Talevski: are opportunities there. And I think every day we’re seeing

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Rob Talevski: some great news stories coming out of China in terms

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Rob Talevski: of companies and the technology they’re delivering.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay. So let’s talk about risk because that is what

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Sean Aylmer: investing’s all about. Great deal of uncertainty over China’s economic

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Sean Aylmer: outlook at the moment. How do you frame that in

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Sean Aylmer: your mind when you’re thinking about investing in China?

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Rob Talevski: Yeah, I mean, look, like all economies, we have our ups and

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Rob Talevski: downs and China is no different and obviously Western media

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Rob Talevski: may also drill into that a bit further than what

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Rob Talevski: we would in Australia or America. But I think the

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Rob Talevski: best way to approach China investment in my mind and

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Rob Talevski: the way I look at it is I look to look for

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Rob Talevski: individual stories. So I’m not investing in the index as

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Rob Talevski: a whole or in the listed space as a whole,

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Rob Talevski: but I’m looking for actual companies that I know can

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Rob Talevski: resonate with me and then I can see that that

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Rob Talevski: has a good time horizon on them.

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Sean Aylmer: I want to get into some of those and we’ll do

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Sean Aylmer: that in a moment, the specific companies. What about the

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Sean Aylmer: property sector just before we do that, because it is

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Sean Aylmer: such a big part of the Chinese economy and massive

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Sean Aylmer: flow on effects, and it seems like for years it’s

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Sean Aylmer: only probably been about 18 months or two years, we’ve

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Sean Aylmer: been reading about the property sector. What’s your take on

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Sean Aylmer: the Chinese property sector?

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Rob Talevski: Yeah, look, absolutely that is an area for concern and

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Rob Talevski: you’re right, it has been for a number of years

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Rob Talevski: now has been spoken of and I think as investors

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Rob Talevski: you should be cautious. Absolutely. We know that an index

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Rob Talevski: as a whole can be impacted through contagion effect, right?

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Rob Talevski: So even though you may be looking at stocks that

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Rob Talevski: aren’t related to property, companies that are listed can be

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Rob Talevski: impacted through that contagion effect. So absolutely investors should be

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Rob Talevski: wary. There is a crisis, obviously there’s a question of

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Rob Talevski: whether or not the government there locally will bail out

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Rob Talevski: those companies in need. But within those moments of doubt

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Rob Talevski: and panic selling, that’s probably where you find the true

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Rob Talevski: opportunities. And I think we’ve seen that repeatedly. Knock on

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Rob Talevski: effects from say the GFC to COVID recently. So there’s

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Rob Talevski: always some opportunities, as we call diamonds in the rough

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Rob Talevski: in those circumstances.

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Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Rob, we’ll be back in a minute.

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Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Rob Talevski, CEO of Webull

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Sean Aylmer: Australia. Okay, so let’s talk about some companies. BYD gets

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Sean Aylmer: a lot of mentions in Australia now, I think it’s the second-

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Sean Aylmer: largest electric vehicle manufacturer in Australia, or certainly in terms

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Sean Aylmer: of sales, largest in China, massive company. Tell me about

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Sean Aylmer: BYD. Build… Was it build your dreams? Is that it?

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Rob Talevski: Yeah, exactly. Build Your Dreams. I think that resonates nicely. Yeah,

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Rob Talevski: it’s an interesting one. Look, just a bit of personal background.

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Rob Talevski: I mean, I’m actually a car enthusiast, right? And so it sort

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Rob Talevski: of hit home.

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Sean Aylmer: Oh dear, go on Rob.

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Rob Talevski: Yeah, well look, I was recently had the privilege of

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Rob Talevski: traveling to China in March this year, and one of

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Rob Talevski: the things that I saw immediately was just the level

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Rob Talevski: of electrification of their transport in China, whether it was

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Rob Talevski: a bicycle or a scooter to cars, to heavy vehicles

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Rob Talevski: like buses. In fact, it was spot the traditional combustion

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Rob Talevski: engine was the game and rarely could I spot one.

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Rob Talevski: So the level of take up there is massive, and

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Rob Talevski: we’re talking one of the largest populations in the world

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Rob Talevski: who are well ahead of say locally at home in

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Rob Talevski: Australia where electric vehicles are still a novelty. But what

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Rob Talevski: I did see was you would see Tesla, which we

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Rob Talevski: all know, and then you would see BYD, and in fact

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Rob Talevski: BYD would outstrip Tesla and they have so in local

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Rob Talevski: sales there for the last two years running.
It’s an

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Rob Talevski: interesting company. It’s not just an EV manufacturer though, they

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Rob Talevski: do manufacture traditional combustion engines and by that virtue, if

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Rob Talevski: you add all that up, they actually are produced twice

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Rob Talevski: as many vehicles as Tesla actually does. But they are

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Rob Talevski: slightly behind Tesla on electric vehicle production, but gaining rapidly.

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Rob Talevski: They’ve also been clever enough to integrate themselves within the

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Rob Talevski: supply chain and they actually create their own batteries for

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Rob Talevski: these vehicles, which Tesla doesn’t. And in fact, ironically Tesla

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Rob Talevski: recently just signed a battery supply agreement with BYD. So

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Rob Talevski: look, they’re really primed for their global ascent. They’re opening

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Rob Talevski: factories globally from Europe to Southeast Asia to Southern America,

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Rob Talevski: so they are truly expanding globally. But what I found

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Rob Talevski: interesting was, look, the vehicles were great, they looked great.

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Rob Talevski: They’re your typical transport vehicles, well opted out, but when

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Rob Talevski: I came back to Sydney, I started noticing that we

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Rob Talevski: actually did have BYD vehicles here and in fact they’re

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Rob Talevski: adding to their product class.
Obviously they only launched with

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Rob Talevski: one or two vehicles, now they’ve got a whole list

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Rob Talevski: of them ready to go and even they’ve got a

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Rob Talevski: classic Australian car as a ute, which they will be

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Rob Talevski: launching soon. So that should hopefully resonate with local buyers.

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Rob Talevski: But just the sheer scale of that business, how quickly

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Rob Talevski: they’ve grown and just how integrated they have been and

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Rob Talevski: the technology that they’ve done. I mean, one thing that

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Rob Talevski: we know in China is their large population has everyday

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Rob Talevski: needs, and BYD was able to solve a lot of

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Rob Talevski: those needs and to do it an environmentally friendly way.

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Rob Talevski: I think we always have a view that China is

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Rob Talevski: a large polluter, but when you see the level of

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Rob Talevski: electric vehicle take up, it’s anything but, and something for

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Rob Talevski: us to be envious here in Australia in terms of

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Rob Talevski: achieving our own climate targets.

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Sean Aylmer: So let’s move sectors. Alibaba, we’ve heard about that for

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Sean Aylmer: many years and it’s a previous owner. I’m not sure

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Sean Aylmer: that he still owns it or not, but Alibaba is

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Sean Aylmer: a well- known company. What do you think of that?

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Sean Aylmer: Of course it’s primarily e- commerce, but it’s kind of

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Sean Aylmer: a lot more than that.

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Rob Talevski: Yeah, I mean look, I originally thought that Alibaba was very much e-commerce,

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Rob Talevski: I probably was a little bit naive to the fact,

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Rob Talevski: but when I was in China, I actually saw the

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Rob Talevski: level of integration that they have within their economy. So

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Rob Talevski: we talk about here about new sort of payment gateway

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Rob Talevski: starters coming here in Australia, challenging the banks. Well in China,

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Rob Talevski: their banking system is quite antiquated across its very vast regions.

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Rob Talevski: These companies, especially Alibaba, have been very clever and they’ve

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Rob Talevski: introduced payment services a decade ago, so they’re well ahead

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Rob Talevski: of the curve that we’re seeing in western countries at

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Rob Talevski: the moment, and particularly here in Australia. So Alibaba does

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Rob Talevski: everything from being an e-commerce platform to providing banking gateways

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Rob Talevski: to even just allowing people to connect and communicate. It’s

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Rob Talevski: a great product, it’s a great company and one that

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Rob Talevski: the everyday Chinese national is using.

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Sean Aylmer: With Alibaba, I mean, it kind of brings up the

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Sean Aylmer: issue of sovereign risk when investing in China. How much

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Sean Aylmer: should investors be worried about that? The idea that there’s

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Sean Aylmer: sovereign risk in terms of the Chinese economy, but probably

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Sean Aylmer: the overlay on that is the communist party actually getting

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Sean Aylmer: involved in markets for good or bad reasons. In terms

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Sean Aylmer: of shareholder returns, I’m talking good or bad.

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Rob Talevski: Look, I think it’s something to be conscious of. I

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Rob Talevski: think it’d be remiss of us not to see that

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Rob Talevski: as part of our risk profile when we’re investing directly

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Rob Talevski: in China. But having said that though, I think we

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Rob Talevski: need to see that it is a very progressive country.

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Rob Talevski: A lot of the thoughts or view opinions that I

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Rob Talevski: had before I got there, a lot of them were

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Rob Talevski: dispelled and to see the level of progression within their

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Rob Talevski: cities and how people are embracing technology there was wonderful,

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Rob Talevski: but look, it is something to factor. But at the

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Rob Talevski: same time, I think we also need to understand that

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Rob Talevski: China needs to be a global player. It is, and

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Rob Talevski: it wants to be, and it wants to take a

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Rob Talevski: more forward footprint in being that global partner to many

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Rob Talevski: countries and to Australia ourselves. We have obviously good relationships

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Rob Talevski: in terms of our trade. And so when you have

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Rob Talevski: those driving factors, then I would like to feel that

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Rob Talevski: you would see that there’d be less interference by the

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Rob Talevski: government because they want their companies to thrive globally.

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Sean Aylmer: Yeah, I mean, I remember talking to Mike Smith, who’s

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Sean Aylmer: the financial review Asian correspondent. He had been based in China,

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Sean Aylmer: and he was saying day to day, China’s not that

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Sean Aylmer: different to Australia. I mean, people just go about their

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Sean Aylmer: lives and do what they do. And it’s kind of almost,

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Sean Aylmer: for those of us who haven’t been to China, it’s

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Sean Aylmer: kind of this, we probably don’t understand that it’s as

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Sean Aylmer: regular in a sense as the US or as Australia

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Sean Aylmer: or as Columbia is in a day-to-day sense.

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Rob Talevski: Yeah, absolutely. I think I’m going to be a little

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Rob Talevski: bit cheeky here and say that I actually think they are

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Rob Talevski: are a lot more progressive than what we are here

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Rob Talevski: in Australia in terms of our local laws. By all means, it’s not what

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Rob Talevski: people… I mean honestly, Western media, maybe perhaps Hollywood always

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Rob Talevski: sort of indicate to us what China may look like

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Rob Talevski: as a socialist country, but it’s anything but that. It’s

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Rob Talevski: very progressive. The people there were very welcoming and warm.

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Rob Talevski: It’s very westernized, to be brutally honest with you. I

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Rob Talevski: mean, the shopping centers I went to are very similar

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Rob Talevski: to the ones we have at home here in Sydney

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Rob Talevski: or in Australia.

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Sean Aylmer: They actually have like KFC and Pizza Hut and Taco

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Sean Aylmer: Bell as well, I believe.

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Rob Talevski: Yes.

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Sean Aylmer: Yum China’s another opportunity potentially that owns those brands.

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Rob Talevski: Yeah, absolutely. And funny enough, there’s a Starbucks on every

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Rob Talevski: corner, so it feels like you’re in New York at

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Rob Talevski: times. But yeah, look, absolutely, you’re right there, Sean. Yum

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Rob Talevski: China or Yum Brands as we know it in other

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Rob Talevski: parts of the world, have a very large presence there,

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Rob Talevski: having Western names that we all know and love, like

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Rob Talevski: KFC and so forth. And so China not only is

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Rob Talevski: a tech play, and I do see it as more

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Rob Talevski: of a tech play and a manufacturing play per se,

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Rob Talevski: but there are some traditional investment opportunities that we’re all

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Rob Talevski: used to. And with a population of over a billion

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Rob Talevski: something people, I think you’d be well- placed to invest

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Rob Talevski: in companies that provide food.

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Sean Aylmer: Rob, thank you for talking to Fear & Greed.

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Rob Talevski: Thank you, Sean. Thanks for having me.

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Sean Aylmer: That was Rob Talevski, C E O of Webull Australia. This is the

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Sean Aylmer: Fear & Greed daily interview. Remember, this information is general in

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Sean Aylmer: nature, and you should seek professional advice before making any

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Sean Aylmer: investment decisions. Join us every morning for the full episode

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Sean Aylmer: of Fear & Greed, Australia’s most popular business podcast. I’m Sean

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Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. Have a great day.