Interview: Turning the maritime industry green

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Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily business interview.
Transport

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Sean Aylmer: accounts for about 18% of Australia’s domestic greenhouse gas emissions,

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Sean Aylmer: but that term transport covers all sorts of areas, planes,

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Sean Aylmer: trains, automobiles. But what about maritime navigation, boats, vessels? Given

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Sean Aylmer: that vast majority of Australians live on the coast, you’d

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Sean Aylmer: think we are fairly advanced in shifting maritime operations to

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Sean Aylmer: green technology. I’m not so sure if that’s correct, though.

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Sean Aylmer: One of the leaders in the push to shift the

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Sean Aylmer: industry from diesel and other types of power to fully

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Sean Aylmer: electric is Dr. Iain Percy, OBE, former Olympic sailing gold

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Sean Aylmer: medalist and founder of Artemis Technologies.
Iain, welcome to Fear

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Sean Aylmer: and Greed.

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Dr. Iain Percy: Hi, Sean.

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Sean Aylmer: Before we get into Artemis itself, how green is maritime

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Sean Aylmer: navigation, both here and globally?

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Dr. Iain Percy: Yeah. It’s not the best actually, but to be fair

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Dr. Iain Percy: to the industry, it’s put its hands up and it

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Dr. Iain Percy: put its hands up fairly voluntarily. In 2017, International Maritime

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Dr. Iain Percy: Organization announced quite how polluting it is worldwide, and I

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Dr. Iain Percy: think because it, by its nature, a lot of maritime

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Dr. Iain Percy: is on big ships going between countries, no one had

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Dr. Iain Percy: really noticed have been flowing a little bit under the

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Dr. Iain Percy: radar. But the truth of it is it is emitting

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Dr. Iain Percy: almost as much as automotive or aerospace, and it’s particularly

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Dr. Iain Percy: emitting of some of the more dangerous greenhouse gases as well.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay, so just give me more detail. Is it the

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Sean Aylmer: big tankers that are doing a lot of the damage?

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Dr. Iain Percy: Well, it is definitely the big tankers, but actually domestic

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Dr. Iain Percy: maritime accounts for about a third of the worldwide emissions

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Dr. Iain Percy: for maritime. So the ferries and fast ferries particularly that

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Dr. Iain Percy: we see here in Sydney are a large, large contributor.

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Dr. Iain Percy: And as I say, it’s not just the CO2, which

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Dr. Iain Percy: is obviously a global challenge. It’s the NOx emissions that

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Dr. Iain Percy: are having real health effects. And in a city like

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Dr. Iain Percy: Sydney where at Circular Quay, there’s a lot of people

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Dr. Iain Percy: living, working and eating around there, that’s probably one of

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Dr. Iain Percy: the more immediate issues that needs to be solved is

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Dr. Iain Percy: the damage to the lungs and the health effect of

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Dr. Iain Percy: the NOx emissions.

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Sean Aylmer: How aware are we of this, Iain?

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Dr. Iain Percy: Well, I certainly wasn’t aware until 2017. 2017, the International Maritime Organization

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Dr. Iain Percy: really announced it, and they said at the time, fairly

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Dr. Iain Percy: unambitiously it sounds and now that they’re going to halve their

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Dr. Iain Percy: emissions by 2050. We go forward five, six years and

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Dr. Iain Percy: it doesn’t really sound that impressive. And certainly with Artemis,

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Dr. Iain Percy: we’re pushing to try and change domestic maritime much faster

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Dr. Iain Percy: than that. And I think there are solutions out there

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Dr. Iain Percy: today that can not only be green, but can actually

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Dr. Iain Percy: be cheaper and can actually save money.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay. So tell me about Artemis. It was spun out of

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Sean Aylmer: the America’s Cup Artemis racing team, wasn’t it? Did someone

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Sean Aylmer: tell me that?

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Dr. Iain Percy: Yeah, someone told you that. So yeah, I was running

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Dr. Iain Percy: Artemis Racing for the 2017 America’s Cup. Artemis was a

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Dr. Iain Percy: Swedish Challenge. I’m British, and we were made up of

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Dr. Iain Percy: about 30 different countries, of which there was a lot

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Dr. Iain Percy: of Aussies, as is the case with a lot of

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Dr. Iain Percy: top sailing teams, to be honest.
And so yeah, we

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Dr. Iain Percy: had a really successful campaign in 2017, but like America’s

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Dr. Iain Percy: Cup is a funny competition and those will remember back

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Dr. Iain Percy: from when you guys won the Cup, it all changes,

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Dr. Iain Percy: the rules change. You’re in a new country with a

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Dr. Iain Percy: new boat. And the problem with that is the team

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Dr. Iain Percy: often stop, and that’s not very sustainable from a kind

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Dr. Iain Percy: of team perspective, either.
So we decided we needed to

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Dr. Iain Percy: keep going, trying to do something with more long- term

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Dr. Iain Percy: sustainability for ourselves as well as for the environment. And

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Dr. Iain Percy: at the same time, the International Maritime Organization are putting

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Dr. Iain Percy: their hands up saying that we really are polluting and

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Dr. Iain Percy: it felt that we had to make a difference there.

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Dr. Iain Percy: So we kind of started with a team and with

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Dr. Iain Percy: a mission, but without a product. And that’s really where

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Dr. Iain Percy: my background before sport and economics, the team’s background in

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Dr. Iain Percy: physics modeling got to work. And we started looking at

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Dr. Iain Percy: lots of different solutions from wing cells on ships to

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Dr. Iain Percy: alternative fuels to hydrogen, looking for areas where there could

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Dr. Iain Percy: be a product that could make a difference, it could

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Dr. Iain Percy: reduce emissions, but it actually worked financially without state support.
Because

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Dr. Iain Percy: one of the things I didn’t have a huge amount

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Dr. Iain Percy: of faith in was that trying to collate the world’s

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Dr. Iain Percy: state support to be in time. Now I would be

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Dr. Iain Percy: a big advocate for pushing harder and for more nudge

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Dr. Iain Percy: towards environmental change, but with the Artemis products, we’re always

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Dr. Iain Percy: thinking we need to make it work without that.

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Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Iain. We’ll be back in a minute.

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Sean Aylmer: My guest today is Dr. Iain Percy, OBE, founder of

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Sean Aylmer: Artemis Technologies.
Okay. So what are the products that Artemis

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Sean Aylmer: has developed that look like they have sustainable sustainability, for

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Sean Aylmer: want of a better phrase?

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Dr. Iain Percy: Well, the area that we found made financial sense was

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Dr. Iain Percy: in any part of maritime that was high speed, medium

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Dr. Iain Percy: distance. We achieve it by using some of the hydrofoiling

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Dr. Iain Percy: technology that was developed in the America’s Cup. So it’s

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Dr. Iain Percy: not like the hydrofoils we saw in the ’70s and ’80s here on

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Dr. Iain Percy: the Harbor.
This is a hydrofoil, which is very much

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Dr. Iain Percy: just an airplane wing under the water, it has no

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Dr. Iain Percy: inherent stability, but thanks to modern computing and the work

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Dr. Iain Percy: that went on in top racing teams we’re able to

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Dr. Iain Percy: control the boats. But the result is a dramatic reduction

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Dr. Iain Percy: in drag and what that means is finally, maritime is efficient enough

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Dr. Iain Percy: to allow battery electric to do reasonable ranges.
The problem

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Dr. Iain Percy: without that, if you just put batteries in a standard

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Dr. Iain Percy: boat, it’s fine if you just want to go slowly

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Dr. Iain Percy: and not go very far. But if you want to

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Dr. Iain Percy: say, come in from Manly every single morning as a

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Dr. Iain Percy: commuter, it’s only viable with something like the Artemis e-

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Dr. Iain Percy: foiling solution.

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Sean Aylmer: So it’s not just about electrification, it’s actually also about

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Sean Aylmer: efficiency of the boat itself and less drag, et cetera.

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Sean Aylmer: What point are you at being able to roll that

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Sean Aylmer: out to potentially putting it on a Manly ferry?

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Dr. Iain Percy: Well, you’re absolutely right. The two things go hand in

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Dr. Iain Percy: hand in maritime. To electrify fast maritime, you needed a

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Dr. Iain Percy: solution not only to the electrical system, the energy storage

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Dr. Iain Percy: system, but you needed a way to step change the

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Dr. Iain Percy: amount of drag that was achieved. And that’s really where

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Dr. Iain Percy: the e- foiling comes in.
So we have these boats

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Dr. Iain Percy: out there already. At the moment, they’re being used in

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Dr. Iain Percy: the work boat sector, so smaller craft, 12 to 15 meter boats, servicing

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Dr. Iain Percy: ports, pilot boats, wind farms, and next summer we launch

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Dr. Iain Percy: the first of the ferries. So 150 pack ferries are

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Dr. Iain Percy: going to European cities to start delivering fast passenger transport.

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Sean Aylmer: That’s very exciting, isn’t it?

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Dr. Iain Percy: It’s cool. Yeah. Yeah, it’s really, really cool. I mean,

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Dr. Iain Percy: I think what’s really nice is there’s such an appetite

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Dr. Iain Percy: to decarbonize that people and, to an extent of faith, their

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Dr. Iain Percy: in us. And I think once you go in our

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Dr. Iain Percy: smaller boats, which have, in some ways it’s harder to

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Dr. Iain Percy: do, they have a lot of faith. But it’s really

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Dr. Iain Percy: nice that these European cities are taking on this fairly

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Dr. Iain Percy: radical transformative technology before they’ve seen it in the water.

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Dr. Iain Percy: And yeah, there’s plenty of other cities sitting there waiting

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Dr. Iain Percy: to see the full scale first vessel out in the

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Dr. Iain Percy: water next summer.

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Sean Aylmer: Yeah. So it’s electric maritime manufacturing, so that’s happening in Australia.

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Sean Aylmer: You’re selling into Europe. Am I right in that so far?

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Dr. Iain Percy: No. Well, our company’s based in Belfast, Northern Ireland. But

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Dr. Iain Percy: what we make as a company is more the propulsion

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Dr. Iain Percy: systems, batteries, foils, and so we make the boats locally.

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Dr. Iain Percy: I think one of the things we don’t want to

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Dr. Iain Percy: do is be slightly contradictory, shipping very heavy, big objects

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Dr. Iain Percy: all the way around the world on ships.
So the

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Dr. Iain Percy: beauty of that is we get to partner. We get

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Dr. Iain Percy: to partner with local business, and the one place where

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Dr. Iain Percy: that’s easy is in Australia where there’s such a huge

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Dr. Iain Percy: skill in composite carbon fiber boat building.

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Sean Aylmer: So presumably that’s an opportunity for Australia then if we

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Sean Aylmer: get behind it.

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Dr. Iain Percy: A hundred percent. It’s an opportunity for the shipyards here

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Dr. Iain Percy: in Australia, as I said, of which there’s some real

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Dr. Iain Percy: skills and it’s an opportunity for the people. Because what

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Dr. Iain Percy: you have done in Australia is adopted water- based transport

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Dr. Iain Percy: as a commuter in a way that they have in

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Dr. Iain Percy: a few parts of the world. But in Sydney, as

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Dr. Iain Percy: we all know, the waterway is, it’s just part of

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Dr. Iain Percy: getting to work in the morning.
So the challenge with

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Dr. Iain Percy: that is because there’s a lot of these ferries, it’s

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Dr. Iain Percy: doing a huge amount of damage to the environment and

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Dr. Iain Percy: the health of the people locally. So I think it’s

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Dr. Iain Percy: an opportunity to support the locals with faster, cleaner transport,

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Dr. Iain Percy: but also on the supply chain side to build jobs

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Dr. Iain Percy: here locally in Australia.

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Sean Aylmer: What’s the government’s view on this? Are they providing help

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Sean Aylmer: at this point?

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Dr. Iain Percy: As I said, I think the key for Artemis and

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Dr. Iain Percy: when we developed our first (inaudible) really is, looking

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Dr. Iain Percy: at it from an economic standpoint, was that we want

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Dr. Iain Percy: this to work without subsidy. There are many routes that

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Dr. Iain Percy: do that, and the classic Manly ferry would be one.

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Dr. Iain Percy: That because it does enough miles, it runs all day,

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Dr. Iain Percy: the efficiency of these boats pays back.
There are other

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Dr. Iain Percy: routes where it’s not quite going to fly without some

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Dr. Iain Percy: economic support, but we’re focusing first on the routes that

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Dr. Iain Percy: do prove the concept out without needing financial subsidy. And

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Dr. Iain Percy: then from there, hopefully governments all around the world will

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Dr. Iain Percy: decide to do small nudges to decarbonize the whole of

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Dr. Iain Percy: the waterways.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay, iain Percy, what’s the goal in 10 years’ time

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Sean Aylmer: then? Is it to have a big chunk of the

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Sean Aylmer: waterways decarbonized?

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Dr. Iain Percy: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it’s really possible. I think

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Dr. Iain Percy: domestic, high- speed, maritime, fast commuter ferries, offshore wind vessels,

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Dr. Iain Percy: offshore oil and gas vessels is one area where we

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Dr. Iain Percy: really can decarbonize and not lose money. So we’ve got

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Dr. Iain Percy: to jump on these opportunities.
I’m someone who campaigns hard

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Dr. Iain Percy: for making a difference through technology, but I look at

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Dr. Iain Percy: a lot of solutions that aren’t win- wins and I

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Dr. Iain Percy: worry about that. We have to make choices as a

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Dr. Iain Percy: society, but when we do have some low- hanging fruit,

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Dr. Iain Percy: let’s grab hold of it.

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Sean Aylmer: Look, I don’t think we ever have gold medalists on Fear

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Sean Aylmer: and Greed given we’re a business podcast. So I have

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Sean Aylmer: to ask you, what’s it like to win a gold?

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Sean Aylmer: In your case, was that the Sydney Olympics? What was

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Sean Aylmer: it like?

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Dr. Iain Percy: Sydney and then in China and London, but with the

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Dr. Iain Percy: first one here in Sydney was when I was 23

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Dr. Iain Percy: years old.

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Sean Aylmer: Wow.

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Dr. Iain Percy: I must admit, at that point, it was quite a

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Dr. Iain Percy: special feeling, but I made the mistake after Sydney of

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Dr. Iain Percy: thinking it was all down to talent. But when Athens

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Dr. Iain Percy: came along, I learned very much the hard way. Talent

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Dr. Iain Percy: has nothing to do with hard work, and so the

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Dr. Iain Percy: next medals then flowed after that. But for sure, it’s

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Dr. Iain Percy: a special thing to do.
For me, it’s sport, business,

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Dr. Iain Percy: it’s always about the journey. It’s about the people you’re

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Dr. Iain Percy: doing it with. The standing on the podium at the

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Dr. Iain Percy: end, it generally gives you a hangover, but the real

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Dr. Iain Percy: fun is made in the teamwork beforehand.

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Sean Aylmer: Iain, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed.

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Dr. Iain Percy: Thank you. Thanks, Sean.

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Sean Aylmer: That was Dr. Iain Percy, OBE, former Olympic sailing gold

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Sean Aylmer: medalist and founder of Artemis Technologies.
You’ve been listening to

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Sean Aylmer: the Fear and Greed daily business interview. Don’t forget to

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Sean Aylmer: join us every morning for the full episode of Fear

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Sean Aylmer: and Greed, Australia’s best business podcast. I’m Sean Aylmer. Enjoy

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Sean Aylmer: your day.