Interview: Writing a job ad? Listen to this first

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Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I’m Sean Aylmer.

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Sean Aylmer: The labour market in Australia is still very tight. There’s

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Sean Aylmer: a lot of competition to find the best staff, and

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Sean Aylmer: when you’ve got them, the pressure is on to retain them.

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Sean Aylmer: So it helps to know what people are actually looking

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Sean Aylmer: for in a job because that in turn lets you

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Sean Aylmer: create more targeted, more appealing job ads. Job site SEEK

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Sean Aylmer: has a very handy tool called the Laws Of Attraction portal.

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Sean Aylmer: It’s based on an ongoing survey of thousands of Australians

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Sean Aylmer: that revealing exactly what would attract them to a role.

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Sean Aylmer: Caroline North is SEEK’s research manager for the Laws Of

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Sean Aylmer: Attraction survey. SEEK, of course, is a great supporter of this podcast. Caroline,

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Sean Aylmer: welcome to Fear and Greed.

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Caroline North: Thanks, Sean. It’s great to be here.

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Sean Aylmer: Cracking name, Laws Of Attraction survey. Tell me, how does

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Sean Aylmer: the portal work?

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Caroline North: Yes. So Laws Of Attraction is a study that looks

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Caroline North: at what motivates people to apply for a new job.

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Caroline North: What is it that they are looking for when they’re

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Caroline North: considering their next role or their next company that they

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Caroline North: want to join and that they want to apply to?

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Caroline North: So the Laws Of Attraction portal is a database that

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Caroline North: houses all the information that we collate from this study

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Caroline North: and serves it up to organizations, hirers, small businesses in

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Caroline North: a way that makes it really easy to digest and

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Caroline North: prioritize the types of information that they need to focus

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Caroline North: on when communicating so that they can attract the best

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Caroline North: talent and the top talent for their organizations.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay. So let’s get into some of the findings from

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Sean Aylmer: it. And I mean, the great thing about this is

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Sean Aylmer: it’s an ongoing survey, isn’t it? So it’s not a

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Sean Aylmer: static product, it actually shows how things change. You’ve got

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Sean Aylmer: access to huge amounts of information. Is it all about work-

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Sean Aylmer: life balance or not?

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Caroline North: Yeah, that’s a great question and especially when we think

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Caroline North: about over the last 10, 12 years that we’ve been running

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Caroline North: this survey and we see the changes in the shifts

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Caroline North: in what people are saying is important. So we’ve identified

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Caroline North: 12 drivers, if you like. So 12 buckets of information

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Caroline North: that people might be looking at, and one of those

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Caroline North: is work-life balance. And over the last 10 to 12 years, we’ve

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Caroline North: seen actually a relatively stable focus on what they’re prioritising.

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Caroline North: So typically pre -pandemic, the focus was really about salary

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Caroline North: and compensation, work-life balance and career development opportunities. So basically

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Caroline North: that means if you are trying to attract someone into

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Caroline North: your company, make sure you’re talking about those three things

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Caroline North: within your job ads, within your employment branding. Now, of course,

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Caroline North: we had a massive disruption when the pandemic hit. And

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Caroline North: interestingly just before the pandemic, we were doing quite a

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Caroline North: big project here at SEEK to understand what it is

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Caroline North: to have a productive and fulfilling working life. So we

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Caroline North: were speaking to a number of thinkers from all over

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Caroline North: the world, different industries, different aspects, and one of them

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Caroline North: that we spoke to really highlighted for us that over

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Caroline North: the last a hundred years, not much had changed in

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Caroline North: why we work, what we’re looking for, what our motivations are.

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Caroline North: And in fact, not since the invention of the light

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Caroline North: bulb had we really seen much change. So this stability

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Caroline North: that we’d seen in the data pre -pandemic was really

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Caroline North: to be expected and it correlates something that we think

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Caroline North: about as Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. So our need for survival,

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Caroline North: putting food on the table, keeping a roof over our head,

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Caroline North: that’s that salary and compensation piece. Our need for work-life balance,

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Caroline North: so that’s the ability to manage our home lives, our

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Caroline North: family lives, our relationships with our friends and communities. And

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Caroline North: then the career development aspect, which is that kind of

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Caroline North: personal growth, the opportunity for self-growth and having a look at that career development. Now,

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Caroline North: when we were doing this work and looking into it,

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Caroline North: the conversations around what would be a big disruptor, and

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Caroline North: this was just before the pandemic, just before the fires,

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Caroline North: and really the sense was it would be a big

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Caroline North: environmental impact would change our priorities around what we want

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Caroline North: to do and where we want to do it, or

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Caroline North: things like big health impacts would have an impact on

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Caroline North: why we wanted to do, so big health scares and

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Caroline North: that sort of thing. And of course we basically went

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Caroline North: into that. And our data reflected that we saw a

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Caroline North: change in people’s priorities. So when we were in the pandemic,

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Caroline North: everything got very, very pointy. Salary and compensation and work-life

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Caroline North: balance really rose to the top of our focus. It

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Caroline North: was over 50% of our attention. And our need for

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Caroline North: information was focused specifically around salary and compensation and work- life balance. Now,

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Caroline North: since the pandemic, what we’ve seen is quite a shift

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Caroline North: back to work-life balance, salary and compensation still at the

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Caroline North: number one and two, but we’re seeing a shift now

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Caroline North: where work-life balance is actually the number one driver of attraction.

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Caroline North: And when we look into the detail behind that and

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Caroline North: we look at that period of time for the last

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Caroline North: 10 years, we really see that the big shift here

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Caroline North: is that work- life balance is no longer a gender

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Caroline North: led story.

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Sean Aylmer: So just before we get into the breakdown of gender,

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Sean Aylmer: because I’m interested, is work- life balance another way of

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Sean Aylmer: saying flexible hours?

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Caroline North: Absolutely. Flexibility is one part of it. But the great

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Caroline North: thing about the portal, if you dive in under work-

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Caroline North: life balance, there are a number of different options and

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Caroline North: ways that you can look at work-life balance. So work-

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Caroline North: life balance means flexibility to some people, maybe it’s about

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Caroline North: working part-time or getting additional leave, it’s having time in lieu.

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Caroline North: So flexibility can really incorporate a number of different factors.

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Caroline North: Where do I work? When am I working? There’s no

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Caroline North: one size fits all for work-life balance.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay. So back to gender, has it changed? I mean,

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Sean Aylmer: I’m guessing that males are more likely to be more

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Sean Aylmer: focused on work-life balance than they were previously.

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Caroline North: Yeah, that is exactly right. So we’re now seeing that

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Caroline North: males are placing comparable amounts of importance relative to the

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Caroline North: other things that they want to know about in relation

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Caroline North: to women. Whereas before it was always about salary and compensation,

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Caroline North: prioritising over work-life balance. And I think that’s the reflection.

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Caroline North: There’s probably a number of factors at play is the

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Caroline North: experience through the pandemic where the home life became everybody’s life,

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Caroline North: not just a gendered role, which still typically plays out.

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Caroline North: I mean, we have ever increasing levels of female participation

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Caroline North: in the workforce. So we’re at our highest levels of female participation,

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Caroline North: over 62% in Australia, and we’re moving into generations moving

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Caroline North: in and out of the workforce. So generations that have

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Caroline North: only ever grown up with women working in the workforce

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Caroline North: and having roles at home. And the pandemic, putting that

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Caroline North: pressure onto home life and work life and bringing it

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Caroline North: all together made it an everybody experience, not just a

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Caroline North: female experience.

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Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Caroline. We’ll be back in a minute.

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Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Caroline North from SEEK. Okay.

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Sean Aylmer: So if I’m an employer and I now know that work-

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Sean Aylmer: life balance is pretty much established as a key factor

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Sean Aylmer: in attracting staff and retaining staff, how do I write

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Sean Aylmer: a job ad, for example?

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Caroline North: Absolutely. So you’ve got to have all of your basic

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Caroline North: information in your job ad to be able to communicate

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Caroline North: what the role is. But you’ve really got to think

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Caroline North: about at what points in time are you communicating your

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Caroline North: job ads. So it doesn’t just happen when you place

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Caroline North: it on SEEK, obviously that’s a really important part. But

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Caroline North: even when you place it on SEEK, there are two

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Caroline North: components of that placement. There’s a summary, a job ad summary,

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Caroline North: which will be served up to a candidate, to a

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Caroline North: job seeker, sorry. There’s also the full job ad. So

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Caroline North: you really want to prioritise in your job ad the

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Caroline North: most important information that candidates are telling you. And that’s

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Caroline North: where going into the portal and finding out what are

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Caroline North: their top three drivers say, and making sure that you’ve

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Caroline North: got messages in there that talk to be it work-life balance,

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Caroline North: be it salary and compensation, be it the management and

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Caroline North: culture of the management in the organization or the overall

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Caroline North: working environment, for example. But customise them. Don’t just have

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Caroline North: the generic one size fits all comment. Talk about it

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Caroline North: in your terms, how it relates to your organisation, how

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Caroline North: it relates to your job.

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Sean Aylmer: And does that split… And I’m going to be attacked

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Sean Aylmer: by salespeople here, but if you are advertising a sales

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Sean Aylmer: role where remuneration may be more important… I am going

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Sean Aylmer: to get attacked for saying that, however, I’m going to

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Sean Aylmer: say it anyway. In that instance, maybe you put the

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Sean Aylmer: wage in the job ad, whereas in another area, in

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Sean Aylmer: charity maybe, where remuneration may not be as important. Is

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Sean Aylmer: that what you’re talking about, breaking it up like that?

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Caroline North: To an extent, yes. I think you hit on something really important,

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Caroline North: especially when you talk about salary and compensation and it’s

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Caroline North: actually talking about salary and compensation and saying these things

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Caroline North: are a priority isn’t just about saying I want more.

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Caroline North: It’s about I want to be able to have the conversation.

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Caroline North: I want to have the transparency. I want to be

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Caroline North: working in an organisation where I know, for example, that

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Caroline North: salary and conversation, there’s regular review periods that actually this

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Caroline North: is something that we can talk about on a regular basis.

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Caroline North: I mean, everybody would love more. And the thing about

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Caroline North: attraction is that really what we’re trying to do is

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Caroline North: tell all our good points, but as consumers of information,

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Caroline North: we just can’t take in that level of information at

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Caroline North: any one time. So what we’re trying to do is

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Caroline North: help hirers and help organizations focus on those key messages.

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Caroline North: So doing it in a way that allows them to

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Caroline North: really focus on what’s going to motivate someone. Now, someone

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Caroline North: in sales and someone in community services say they both

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Caroline North: want to know how they can get the best out

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Caroline North: of their salary and compensation packages and what the culture

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Caroline North: of the organisation is like to be talking about salary

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Caroline North: and compensation.

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Sean Aylmer: You sort of hinted at career development as well. Is

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Sean Aylmer: that a big thing?

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Caroline North: Yeah, so this is very interesting in the data. So

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Caroline North: up until pandemic, absolutely, career development was always number three.

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Caroline North: And I’m sure, as you can imagine, Sean, that there

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Caroline North: was more of a focus in those early generations coming

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Caroline North: through and less of a focus on career development as

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Caroline North: you are nearing the end of your career. So there’s

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Caroline North: a trade off, all of these elements are a trade

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Caroline North: off. But career development had a really healthy sitting at

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Caroline North: number three. But when the pandemic happened, what we saw

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Caroline North: was that career development started to drop off in terms

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Caroline North: of focus and what we’re seeing in this post pandemic, it’s

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Caroline North: actually that to an extent, people are much more focused

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Caroline North: on the here and now, about what’s my work right

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Caroline North: here, right now. And we’re not seeing that same demand within

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Caroline North: this point in time for people to be focusing on

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Caroline North: the career development opportunities.
Now, that’s not to say that

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Caroline North: at another point in an employee life cycle, now we’re

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Caroline North: just talking attraction. There’s also engagement and retention. Now, once

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Caroline North: you’ve got people in your organization, career development might be

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Caroline North: a very strong conversation to keep that motivated person that

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Caroline North: you’ve managed to get into your company, within your company

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Caroline North: and growing in your company and adding value to them

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Caroline North: and getting them to add value back into your organization.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay, final question. The labor market’s hot right now, we

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Sean Aylmer: all know that. How should employers use the Laws Of

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Sean Aylmer: Attraction data to kind of set themselves apart from their

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Sean Aylmer: competitors or other businesses trying to attract the same workers?

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Caroline North: Yeah, absolutely. So it’s a great opportunity to differentiate by

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Caroline North: using the portal, identifying the data, and then doing a

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Caroline North: reflection internally in your organization and saying, “What do we

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Caroline North: offer for these elements?” So if it’s work- life balance

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Caroline North: or career development, or what’s the culture of the management?

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Caroline North: How do we communicate that? When do we communicate that?

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Caroline North: So really getting tight and identifying is there an opportunity

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Caroline North: for us to talk to what we’re doing? Then looking

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Caroline North: at it strategically and saying, “Is there an opportunity for

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Caroline North: us to do things that we’re not already focused on

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Caroline North: that would be meaningful to the marketplace?” And then getting

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Caroline North: very pointy within each job ad and with each hiring

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Caroline North: manager and working through all the interactions and saying, “Do

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Caroline North: we talk a consistent story that supports the focus on

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Caroline North: the right messages at the right time?”

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Sean Aylmer: Caroline, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed.

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Caroline North: Thank you, Sean.

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Sean Aylmer: That was Caroline North, SEEK’s Research Manager, for the Laws

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Sean Aylmer: Of Attraction survey. It’s well worth a look. SEEK is,

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Sean Aylmer: of course, a great supporter of this podcast. This is

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Sean Aylmer: the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join us every morning

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Sean Aylmer: for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia’s most

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Sean Aylmer: popular business podcast. I’m Sean Aylmer. Have a great day.