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First Nations people are almost entirely absent from executive roles in Australia – despite making up 5% of the national workforce. And at the same time, indigenous Australians are feeling the burden of ‘cultural load’ – being tasked with educating others, including Acknowledgements of Country.

Sean Aylmer talks to Yawuru/Bunuba woman Cara Peek – a lawyer and co-founder of Cultural iQ, an organisation providing culturally appropriate training to Australian businesses.

Find out more: https://fearandgreed.com.au

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear & Greed daily interview. I’m Sean Aylmer. First

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Sean Aylmer: Nations people are almost entirely absent from executive roles despite

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Sean Aylmer: making up 5% of the national workforce. And at the

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Sean Aylmer: same time, indigenous Australians are feeling the burden of cultural

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Sean Aylmer: load, being tasked with educating others, including things like acknowledgements

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Sean Aylmer: of country. Yawuru/Bunuba woman Cara Peek is a lawyer and

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Sean Aylmer: entrepreneur and the co- founder of Cultural IQ, an organization

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Sean Aylmer: providing culturally appropriate training to Australian businesses. Cara, welcome to

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Sean Aylmer: Fear & Greed.

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Cara Peek: Thank you for having me.

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Sean Aylmer: I mentioned in the introduction a statistic from last year’s

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Sean Aylmer: Australian Indigenous Employment Index, which was released by the Minderoo

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Sean Aylmer: Foundation, which of course is funded by the Forrest family

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Sean Aylmer: of Fortescue Metals fame. First Nations people fill only 0.

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Sean Aylmer: 7% of senior management positions across the country. It’s kind

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Sean Aylmer: of confronting when 5% of the workforce are First Nations people.

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Cara Peek: Absolutely. But it’s of no surprise to me. As you

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Cara Peek: mentioned, I’m a founder and entrepreneur, but I’ve also worked

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Cara Peek: as a solicitor in firms in the federal court and

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Cara Peek: also worked in corporate in Australia. So I’ve often been

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Cara Peek: the only indigenous person and definitely only indigenous woman, either

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Cara Peek: on a board or in executive or senior management roles.

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Cara Peek: So no news to me there.

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Sean Aylmer: Are we getting any better at all? Is there any improvement?

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Cara Peek: I think that there is some improvement to a degree,

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Cara Peek: but really it’s about the pipeline and it’s creating a

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Cara Peek: critical path to success that has minimal cultural load and

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Cara Peek: maximum support. And that takes everybody else also increasing their

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Cara Peek: Cultural IQ and their cultural intelligence to make that happen.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay, so let’s talk about that. When you talk about

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Sean Aylmer: Cultural IQ, what are you talking about?

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Cara Peek: So I’m talking about raising cultural intelligence. Now many people

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Cara Peek: are aware of the term of cultural awareness, and so

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Cara Peek: that’s just a general awareness of different cultures that exist

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Cara Peek: out there. You can then work towards cultural competence where

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Cara Peek: you have a higher degree of understanding of others, but

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Cara Peek: also an understanding of yourself and how you navigate the

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Cara Peek: various cultures that we interact with on a daily basis.

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Cara Peek: That can be corporate, education, sporting, societal culture. Cultural intelligence

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Cara Peek: is getting into a space where you can actually easily kind

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Cara Peek: of traverse between the cultures. You can understand, unpacked and

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Cara Peek: recognise your own bias, how that affects your decision making,

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Cara Peek: your thought processes, how you process information or react to information.

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Cara Peek: And then also go aways to understanding how other people

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Cara Peek: do also and meeting in the middle for mutual benefit.

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Sean Aylmer: That’s no easy task, Cara, though, to get to that point.

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Cara Peek: Oh, no, it’s not. It actually takes a lot of self- reflection.

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Cara Peek: Like most things in life, the things worth fighting for

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Cara Peek: are often the hardest things to get and often take

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Cara Peek: the most work. So it is actually about self- reflecting,

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Cara Peek: recognising and rewiring, and doing it as a daily practice.

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Cara Peek: There are many things that we do as a daily

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Cara Peek: practice and creating a culturally safe environment, whether it be at

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Cara Peek: the workplace or in your family or in your sporting club,

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Cara Peek: is just as important as the things like mindfulness, it’s

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Cara Peek: part of leadership. And so it’s something that you kind

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Cara Peek: of have to commit to and understand that everybody’s different,

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Cara Peek: but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay, so let’s talk about the workplace since we’re Fear & Greed

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Sean Aylmer: here, which is a business podcast. I mean, companies do

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Sean Aylmer: make a thing of employing culturally diverse groups. It might

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Sean Aylmer: be First Australians, it may be people with English as

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Sean Aylmer: a second language, it may be people from overseas, et

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Sean Aylmer: cetera. But employing is probably 20% of it. Actually making

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Sean Aylmer: individuals feel comfortable in the workplace and having that sort

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Sean Aylmer: of cultural IQ though, that must take a lot of

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Sean Aylmer: work for a company to actually fulfill what it needs

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Sean Aylmer: to do.

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Cara Peek: Absolutely. I mean, it’s a lot of work, but it’s

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Cara Peek: also important to look at it as absolute risk mitigation.

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Cara Peek: It reduces legal risk, OH& S risk and all those

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Cara Peek: types of things to creating shared understanding and a common

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Cara Peek: communication methodology as well. Because the biggest downfall in this space,

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Cara Peek: much like any relationship breakdown, will be in communication. And

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Cara Peek: so you can embed it in the organisation through an

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Cara Peek: auditing process, through consistent continual cultural training that takes people

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Cara Peek: on a journey. Because it is a lifelong journey. It’s

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Cara Peek: not something that we’re saying that business needs to implement 100%,

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Cara Peek: and job done, tick the box and it’s done. It

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Cara Peek: is about continuous learning from the shop floor to the

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Cara Peek: board and back again. And in that process it can be

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Cara Peek: embedded in systems, audits, checks, et cetera, much like anything else

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Cara Peek: would be, and in fact can bolster the bottom line,

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Cara Peek: increase productivity, focus and output generally. And also, as you said,

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Cara Peek: recruitment’s one piece. This is about retention and growth and

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Cara Peek: innovation in that growth as well.

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Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Cara. We’ll be back in a minute.

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Sean Aylmer: I’m speaking to Cara Peak, co- founder of Cultural IQ.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay, I wanted to talk to you about cultural load, L- O- A-

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Sean Aylmer: D, cultural load. It’s not just being asked to do

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Sean Aylmer: the acknowledgement of country. It’s a broader expectation that First

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Sean Aylmer: Nations teams members will educate others. What’s it look like,

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Sean Aylmer: cultural load, and is it a real challenge for companies?

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Cara Peek: It most definitely is a real challenge for companies and

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Cara Peek: a real challenge for employees in their role in companies.

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Cara Peek: So just imagine that you are, you don’t have to

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Cara Peek: be indigenous, you could be South Asian, you could be African,

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Cara Peek: whatever your culture is, coming into an organisation and having

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Cara Peek: everybody in that organisation look to you to educate them

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Cara Peek: on what they perceive to be the issues with your

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Cara Peek: community or with your culture. You might be a graphic

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Cara Peek: artist and have no formal training in cultural education, or

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Cara Peek: in training and development or education in general. But they’re

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Cara Peek: looking to you because you look like what they perceive

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Cara Peek: to be the person that can provide them with the

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Cara Peek: answers when all you actually want to do is go in,

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Cara Peek: do your job, earn your salary, and go home. And

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Cara Peek: so that’s not an unreasonable expectation when you go to work.

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Cara Peek: But also with the cultural load, people aren’t getting paid

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Cara Peek: any more to provide that education. They’re not getting paid

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Cara Peek: any more, and their position descriptions aren’t being adjusted to

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Cara Peek: accommodate for that additional load. It’s just an expectation. It’s

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Cara Peek: incumbent on the employer as well as the individuals that

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Cara Peek: are asking this to, A, provide education opportunities for the workforce,

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Cara Peek: but B, take it upon themselves to do some self-

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Cara Peek: education as well.

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Sean Aylmer: I suppose that’s to be, I mean, I ran newsrooms

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Sean Aylmer: and literally had hundreds of people working with me or,

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Sean Aylmer: I mean, kind of in the structure, but at times

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Sean Aylmer: I was kind of afraid, I can’t say of First

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Sean Aylmer: Nations people, but certainly involving some religions, for example. I

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Sean Aylmer: was almost, certainly I was unaware, and when I became

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Sean Aylmer: aware of some of this cultural load or cultural IQ,

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Sean Aylmer: it was actually quite the middle- aged white bloke, me,

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Sean Aylmer: became quite nervous about how to even behave around it.

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Sean Aylmer: Is it about, I mean, I suppose it comes back

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Sean Aylmer: to communication is what you’re going to tell me, Cara,

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Sean Aylmer: here. But I think there’s a lot of confusion out

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Sean Aylmer: there and certainly I found myself in the workplace, because

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Sean Aylmer: the last thing I wanted to do was the wrong

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Sean Aylmer: thing. But then you’d find yourself you weren’t doing anything.

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Cara Peek: Absolutely. People get paralysed by fear instead of stepping into

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Cara Peek: the fear with a healthy and respectful curiosity. And so

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Cara Peek: also it’s about sharing your own lived experience, but creating an

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Cara Peek: environment where, it’s coined as listening in colour. So when

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Cara Peek: you listen in colour, you are there ready to hear

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Cara Peek: what the person is saying rather than to impose what

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Cara Peek: your lived experience is on that person and to recognize

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Cara Peek: that their experience may be different. And you can gradually

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Cara Peek: grow your relationships. You gradually grow your knowledge as well.

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Cara Peek: Much the same as when you make a new friend,

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Cara Peek: just as every normal person would do, use tit for tat, right?

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Cara Peek: You learn a little bit, you share a little bit,

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Cara Peek: and those types of things gradually build on each other.

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Cara Peek: And you must move at the speed of trust. So

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Cara Peek: the people that are providing the information to you, they

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Cara Peek: need to trust that you’re going to hear it, you’re

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Cara Peek: going to respect it. You might acknowledge it’s different to

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Cara Peek: your lived experience, but you are not going to go

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Cara Peek: quickly to judgment. And then it’s the same on the

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Cara Peek: flip side. They will listen to you and as you said,

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Cara Peek: it all comes down to communication. Of course I’m going

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Cara Peek: to say that. But it’s also a huge part to

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Cara Peek: do with unpacking and working on yourself, understanding why you

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Cara Peek: think the way that you do and make decisions the

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Cara Peek: way that you do and feel the way that you do.

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Cara Peek: And that takes time because we’ve all had different experiences

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Cara Peek: that impact the way we view the world.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay. So tell me about the Cultural Intelligence Project, your project,

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Sean Aylmer: what sort of response have you had to it thus far?

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Cara Peek: So the Cultural Intelligence Project is the social enterprise or

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Cara Peek: profit for purpose organisation to raise the cultural intelligence of

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Cara Peek: our nation for the advancement of First Peoples. And one part of

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Cara Peek: that is Cultural IQ, which is the Cultural IQ program. And in that,

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Cara Peek: we’ve had a great response. So we launched on January 26,

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Cara Peek: and this was after many, many years of live delivery

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Cara Peek: in variety of formats. But we felt like we couldn’t

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Cara Peek: scale and meet the need of our community, but also

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Cara Peek: of Australian society, because it unpacks cultural bias, which everybody holds,

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Cara Peek: doesn’t matter if you’re indigenous or not. And in that

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Cara Peek: it is applicable across industry. So we have had people

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Cara Peek: take it up from agriculture, carbon farming, the legal fraternity,

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Cara Peek: private philanthropy, government departments. And it really touches every industry

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Cara Peek: because every industry has a variety of people in it

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Cara Peek: and a variety of cultural challenges. People have responded quite

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Cara Peek: well to the content. Obviously we’d done our market research beforehand,

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Cara Peek: but we knew there was nothing else like it on

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Cara Peek: the market. And that has been proven, and that’s the

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Cara Peek: feedback we’ve also gotten. It’s like university level knowledge delivered

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Cara Peek: in a manner that the man on the street or

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Cara Peek: woman on the street can understand and resonate with, with

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Cara Peek: live examples from a First Nations worldview, obviously, because we’re

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Cara Peek: Aboriginal people, but with other cultural inputs and examples as

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Cara Peek: well from our own familial connections, but other cultures that

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Cara Peek: we’ve engaged with or worked with as well. So really

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Cara Peek: great response. More and more people are inquiring about it

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Cara Peek: and are realising that it doesn’t matter if you’re in

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Cara Peek: a small nonprofit or if you’re at the top end

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Cara Peek: of town, it is applicable throughout industry and throughout the business.

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Sean Aylmer: So people who want to know more about it, what should they be looking up?

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Cara Peek: So just go to culturaliq.com.au and go on there and

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Cara Peek: there’s more information there. You can book a discovery call

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Cara Peek: with myself or my co- founder, Adele, and also obviously

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Cara Peek: we have all the requisite information on the website, in the

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Cara Peek: discovery call, or you can purchase it right then and

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Cara Peek: there. You can also follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram and

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Cara Peek: basically just take the first step to understand what lenses

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Cara Peek: you might be viewing the world with and how they

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Cara Peek: either are or are not serving you in your daily

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Cara Peek: life, whether it be in the workplace or whether it

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Cara Peek: be in decisions as big as how you’re going to

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Cara Peek: vote in the referendum later this year. It’s all interwoven

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Cara Peek: and you will definitely learn some new things. You’ll be

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Cara Peek: challenged, but you’re challenged in a safe learning environment is the

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Cara Peek: general feedback that we’ve been getting from people, that they

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Cara Peek: feel tested enough that they’re intrigued, but safe enough that

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Cara Peek: they can reflect and ask a question.

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Sean Aylmer: Good luck with it, Cara, and thank you for talking

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Sean Aylmer: to Fear & Greed.

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Cara Peek: Thank you very much for having me.

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Sean Aylmer: That was Cara Peek, co- founder of Cultural IQ. This is

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Sean Aylmer: the Fear & Greed daily interview. You join us every morning

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Sean Aylmer: for the full episode of Fear & Greed, Australia’s most popular

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Sean Aylmer: business podcast. I’m Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.